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Post by Nedward Underhill on Dec 2, 2008 21:20:25 GMT -6
though I have to chuckle at your need for "realism," I really like your idea. Thanks! I'll work on the edit later. I need to think about its implications for the story.
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Post by Nedward Underhill on Dec 16, 2008 20:52:58 GMT -6
Chapter 3 is done. I'm deciding if I should continue the Borelin story or introduce a second arc. Thoughts?
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Post by Sorcha on Dec 21, 2008 8:33:25 GMT -6
Is the second arc going to be in there regardless of whether you add it now? If so, then I'd add it now so it seems just as central to the story as the Borelin plot (instead of being a real shock to the reader if it starts up later). However, if you are asking whether you should have a second arc, I don't have an opinion. I have no idea where this story is going, so I have no idea whether you need a sub-plot, or a parallel main plot.
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Post by Nedward Underhill on Dec 21, 2008 15:09:19 GMT -6
Thanks Sorcha. Your comments are bang on, as usual. It is central, and so needs to be started. I've been thinking about it and figuring out the details and direction this week, so the writing has slowed. Hope to have something up today!
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Post by Sorcha on Dec 23, 2008 14:27:10 GMT -6
This is actually a fascinating question and has led me thinking a lot about the writing process lately. I offer you my thoughts not as advice but just in case they trigger something for you.
Premise: I am writing a long story with two major arcs that come together at some point.
(Aside: I once read a book that was structured this way, or so it seemed. Imagine my surprise when the arcs never connected and it turned out that they were there to shed thematic light on one another, not to create a cohesive plot. It's been ten years or more since I read that book, and while the book was pretty unremarkable otherwise, it's stuck with me for that reason.)
Anyway, the question is how to structure the novel, with a side question of how actually to write the novel.
In reviewing my collection o' fantasy novels, I find that people do it one of four ways.
1. Every chapter has a section for each arc.
2. Chapters alternate between arcs.
3. A block of arc 1 followed by a block of arc 2, rinse and repeat. A "block" will be something like 2, 3, or 4 chapters.
4. A section for arc 1, getting it all the way to just before the arcs converge. A section for arc 2, ditto. Then a section where the arcs converge. (Sometimes there are dramatic POV shifts involved with this approach. I'm thinking of arc 1 being third party interior, arc 2 being first person, and the combined section being third party exterior, or something like that.)
What structure makes sense for any particular story depends on the story, of course.
And this brings me to the question I've been chewing on. What are the ways of producing the material that eventually gets combined into one of these structures?
I think it's great that you are letting us read as you write. However, I think that if I were writing a story where the arcs started out quite divergent and then came together (as opposed to just alternating POVs in the same plot arc, for instance), I might want to play around with writing both arcs first, without combining them and then deciding later how best to combine them for the effect I was trying to have on the reader.
Examples of things that might make me want to choose one of the structures over another . . . .
The first arc is written using either first person or some interior POV. The second arc sheds some light on that first arc, making it clear the exact degree to which the narrator of arc 1 is unreliable. Do I want readers to know that as they go along, or do I want that to emerge only later?
One arc involves people who know the answers to some mystery or secret that the other arc doesn't understand. Do I want readers to have that key before the characters in the arc do?
Do the two arcs develop over approximately the same time frame? Can I weave them together (alternating in some way) using the passage of time as the organizing principle? Or does one arc take place in a much shorter period of time than the other? What's the best way to handle the structure to make that clear?
So if I were writing, I might want to write all the first draft of the Borelin material and then all the first draft of the other arc material, and then figure out how best to weave it all together.
The downside of letting outsiders read your work as it grows might be that you are too focused on trying to make it a coherent "product" for us as readers while it's still growing. I recall an issue I had with one novel I was writing, where I knew where I wanted to end up but couldn't figure out what the next thing to happen should be. So one of my feedback group members said, "Okay, then. Write the ending." So I did, and it did loosen things up a lot. I rewrote that ending later, but it taught me an important lesson about not being tied to writing stuff in the order I will eventually want readers to encounter it all.
So I said it's not advice, and it's mostly not. My actual advice is to write what is aching to be written, and rearrange it later if a different structure makes a better final product than the order in which you happened to write it.
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Post by Nedward Underhill on Dec 24, 2008 21:42:46 GMT -6
I hear you, Sorch. I agree on the standard format, though I think that it should not be so much 1 chapter/1 chapter as 1 thought/1 thought (however chapters that takes). As for me, I needed to shift focus and work on Maciael's story anyway, for creative reasons. Partly because I need to let Borelin and Rook "percolate" for a bit, and aprtly because Borelin and Rook's past kept pressing itself into their narrative, and Maciael's narrative will shed light upon it. As for your final comment, I could not agree more. I realized a while ago that the start I have set for the story might not end up the start of the finished product. I'll worry about that later As always, thanks for posting your thoughts. Keep em coming!
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Post by Nedward Underhill on Dec 25, 2008 1:32:10 GMT -6
I was re-reading chapter one tonight, and it sure feels rough. That is what rewrites are for, so i'm not too worried. But I noted particularly my original intention to have a more traditional 3rd person perspective. I have mostly left that behind. Based on your feedback, I have shifted the style to the an "internal" 3rd person pov. Writing this way comes very easily to me anyway, as I always am interested in my characters thoughts and motivations, what "makes them tick". I'd like to know your thoughts. Are you happy with the change? Are all the internal thoughts and feelings enjoyable or do they drag the "story" down?
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Post by Sorcha on Dec 25, 2008 10:14:57 GMT -6
In my experience, you've always been a stronger writer with interior third-person POV than with other POVs. Unless you are deliberately trying to stretch yourself, I'd stick with what works and play to your strengths.
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Post by celera on Feb 2, 2009 22:06:02 GMT -6
Finally caught up on the story. It's quite different, I like the balance in the two storylines and the two main characters, who have some interesting similarities as well as differences. Can't wait to hear what happens next, and how the boy who seems to belong in one world is found in the other.
I agree with sis, though, about descriptions. The more they are worked into the action, the better. Particularly when you are writing from an interior pov, it breaks things up to have descriptions that wouldn't be what your main character is noticing. I think as you are going along you're doing this better.
Your persistence is inspiring!
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Post by Nedward Underhill on Feb 3, 2009 0:05:35 GMT -6
Thanks Cel! Realy appreciate your reading, and wading through the descriptions to find the good parts. I agree! Most of chapter one needs to end up on "the cutting room floor." My excuse was that I was feeling out the world as I stumbled forward. I'm glad to hear that it's getting better now. It's hard not to go back and start fixing, but I think I need to press forward and edit later.
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Post by Nedward Underhill on Feb 23, 2009 23:22:45 GMT -6
I think I'm finished chapter 6. Now I've got to get my head back into Borelin & Rook. Everything clear as mud?
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Post by behindtheglass on Mar 18, 2009 6:27:48 GMT -6
While I have no writing experience and understanding of writing styles, I do enjoy a good story and enjoy this one! So with that, I will point out any typos or grammatical errors I find which may or may not be intended... Keep up the good work Mr. Underhill!
Btg
Chapter 2 Grammatical errors:
"It seemed like a cruel joke that Rook might have survived his an ordeal in the storm only to now succumb to a fever." extra 'an'
"Ducking his head under the doorway, he stomped inside, slammed the door behind him, and turned face the boy." missing a 'to'
"Inside the rings of homes were the town’s business and shops." Isn't it businesses?
"The old chapel was actually a relatively small building, and was unique among the buildings of the town in that it were largely composed of cemented stone." is was or they were but not 'it were'.
"The light of the torch bloomed out in the open air, casting flicking light over the nearby walls of the chamber. " should it be 'flickering'?
"Dripstone sliced down from the ceiling, and rose from the floor, sometime forming into massive bowed columns." missing 's' on sometimes
"The room was indeed vast; extending in some places fourty feet across, and the roof no less than twenty feet above them. " should be 'forty' - evidently they are still imperialized...
"The ceiling and walls were covered with dripstone, which functioned to heighten the feeling immense size." the 'feeling of immense size'?
"To Borelin, it felt like the great cavern just went on an on without ending." 'on AND on'
"In this holy place nothing had been disturbed for hundred of years." 'hundreds of years'?
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Post by Nedward Underhill on Mar 18, 2009 16:37:45 GMT -6
Good cathes all, dagnabbit. I'll have to speak with my scribe...
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Post by behindtheglass on Mar 19, 2009 7:41:36 GMT -6
Chapter 3 findings: (loved the interaction with the Corkram's - seems like I've been there many times! - btg) "The door to the crypt had shut behind him, but all the same it wasn’t so far down to the holy altar that sounds of boy in pain would necessarily be cut off completely from his hearing." 'sounds of A boy' - and I found this sentence in general to be too wordy "This wild impression was reinforced when Borelin put hit hand in to steady the bird only to receive a sharp peck for his trouble." 'put hiS hand in' "Borelin had purchased his team of silverbacks from Corkrams years ago. Like most of the kennels in town, it was mom and pop operation." 'it was A mom and pop' or should it be present tense? "They even had a large decorative tapestry on one wall rather whimsically depicting silverbacks dressed in human clothing, and sitting at table to play a game of tiles" 'sitting at a table' - and a very poor attempt at humor! "Not wanting to be rude, Borelin sank back into the chair and help himself to one of the fresh biscuits. " 'helped himself'? "When the cold evening air slapped against him, we welcomed it with relief." 'he welcomed it' "Feeling battered and bloodied by their relentless kindness, he shook raised the reins only to discover that Ankur was mingling amongst the sled team, passing out treats and cuddles." 'he SHOOK raised the reins'? "Such was Borelin’s state of mind that he found himself pressing his lips to the back on his knuckles in supplication to Yaelwe to make the news good." 'back of his knuckles'? "Still, it was touch and go few times, as visitors to the chapel heard the odd sound coming from the chaplain’s residence." 'touch and go A few times' "As well, extra clothing and blankets needed, and more laundry needed to be done." 'blankets WERE needed' "Across the isle, one of the nurses tended to the injured man, while the other loosened the cords tying up the woven divider to the wall and let it fall." 'Across the Aisle' "The heavy woven dividers helped, but certainly wouldn’t prevent anyone walking down the isle from seeing Rook." I think 'isle' is an island isn't it? It's twice you use it, not sure if it's intended...
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Post by Nedward Underhill on Mar 19, 2009 21:05:08 GMT -6
Thank you sir. Close reading, and most helpful. The silverback tapestry is a blight upon homes everywhere.
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